When I was a child, I was taught that the bible-god was loving and caring. All the stories I heard in church and in Sunday School seemed to prove this. But when I got a little older and started reading the Bible myself, I found him to be a very different "person."The god described in the Old Testament is angry, vindictive, jealous, and has a lot of other negative human emotions that I would never have attributed to the "God" of my childhood. He reminded me of other gods I had learned about from Greek and Egyptian mythology.
To me, it was obvious that it was all a farce, that the bible-god was created by men to control other men. I mean, why would the creator of the universe be so "human"? Why would he make mistakes and regret things and change his mind and torture and kill those who wouldn't worship him?
And then I thought, even if he were real, why would anyone want to worship such a sadistic bastard? He was like some crazy, angry, old man who would throw temper tantrums when things didn't go his way. The difference was, he had super powers and could hurt and kill people with a single word. I thought, if my family knew a man like this, they would never let me go near him!
And that was when I became an Atheist...
9 comments:
He does seem awfully imperfect.
Did Steve Harvey copy the book title Act Like A Lady Think Like A Man
and theme from an earlier book?
Book with same title & theme copyrighted and published by Sharon P. Carson in 2003
CHICAGO, IL – Sharon P. Carson the author of the original title: Act Like A Lady –Think Like A Man, watched the February 27th episode of the Ophra show on which Steve Harvey was promoting his book of the same title. She was hoping that Steve would reveal to Oprah where he got the title and the theme for the book. It just seemed odd to her that his book had the same title and theme as her book that was copy written in 2003.
Upon subsequently purchasing the book, she found some interesting parallels and realized that it is not unusual for a high profiled person to take a great title and theme, rewrite a book and use their celebrity status to sell it. This she says happens too often to the unsung poets, authors and entrepreneurs of the world.
Steve wrote in his book that his hope was to “empower you with a wide-open look into the minds of men”. Sharon P. Carson wrote in her book in 2003 that her hope was for women to gain some insight into how men think in terms of relationships. Sharon also noted that in chapter 8 of Steve Harvey’s book titled “Why Men Cheat” he came to the same conclusion that she did in chapter 37 of her book, titled “Why would a man cheat”, and the answer was, “because they can”.
Sharon actively promoted her book before the release in January 2009 of Steve Harvey’s book, and would not like to see her promotion efforts hindered. She feels that her book has much to offer from a woman’s perspective and seeks to empower women to practice self love and tough love in relationships.
Before the publication of Steve Harvey’s book of the same title, Sharon bought the domain name: www.actlikealadythinklikeaman.com from which she has been selling her book. She has also held seminars with women at a Chicago University in promotion of her book, and can be viewed on the following youtube clip as she was being interviewed on a cable television program about her book in 2007 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxVVQX15X2Y.
Mindful of all the self - published poets and authors who have a hard time finding publishers for their works, Sharon is currently consulting with attorneys regarding her options, and hopes that her book with the first and original title of Act Like A Lady Think Like A Man will finally receive the recognition it deserves for the wisdom, encouragement, and empowerment that it provides to women.
I want to worship God because he is the way, the truth, and the life.
God hates sin, plain and simple. He hates it so much he sent his son to die at our hands to free us from it.
God's anger is not anger as you and I understand it, irrational and unprovoked - it is a righteous anger, like a father who wants to see his children do better but is disappointed when they disobey.
Also keep in mind that God, in the Old Testament, showed many signs and wonders to his people. Even after seeing those signs and experiencing God's grace and love that he gives to his children, they still disobeyed.
You mention vindictiveness and jealousy. If anyone's allowed to be vindictive to someone who has wronged him, I believe it would be the one who defines justice. It's foolish to think it's vengeance like you or I would have, which is often about satisfying anger and not about righting what's wrong.
Re: jealousy, why would you be content with people settling for anything other than the one ultimate truth? Especially if those people rage on against you in hatred and disobedience. His jealousy is not like our jealousy, which is imperfect and based on our covetous desires. His jealousy is a jealousy that longs to call everyone to perfection by his side.
I hope you don't give up trying to find the truth. There are so many things we can miss when reading the Bible that it can be difficult. I sure don't know all the answers myself, but I'm learning every day.
Phineas,
I still await any solid definition of God, before taking what you profess as facts and not simple belief. Faith, conviction, whatever.
Who or what IS God? The character described in Genesis? With all due respect to the beliefs that are dear to your heart, he IS a very fierce person, and his "disciplining" is usually far too lethal for any educational benefit. Read my latest comment on "Rules are rules", and do check the many references I've compiled.
[The KJV and the Koran can be found on Wikisource, for all those who have curiosity but not the books.]
To be perfectly clear, I am from a christian background, with the combination of open-minded parents and über-rigid aunts and school. It gave me the chance, and the incentive, to reflect upon things, while neither having them forcibly brainwashed into me, nor denigrated by "believing atheists" or staying ignorant of it all.
My conclusion : if you look at it all with a blank note page, strictly with objective criteria, far too many things don't hold the holy water.
I made the free personal choice to be a theist (or is that a deist?). But put any shred of trust in any clergy? No. Effing. Way.
If a God of Love exists, as I've instinctively chosen to believe, the Bible says a lot of nonsense that cannot compute with this notion. And furthermore, the clergies, all of them as far as I know, are the mortal enemies of the mercy, fraternity and human Love which I believe in.
And I'm not a believer in these principles because some immensely powerful Enigma ordered me too, but out of personal conviction. Had too many moronic teachers which I'm very happy for not having listened to.
I mean, one single paedophilia affair being covered up would already be proof enough that the hierarchy, all the way to the top, are bloody liars with their goody-goody postures. But it's like saying that a thimble of vitriol on my scalp would be enough to make me jump under the burn, while in reality it's been raining acid for 40 days and 40 nights.
(How could 40 consecutive nights follow 40 consecutive days of shining sun, is anybody's guess. Must be that Global Warming and all those blasted acid rains...)
"Also keep in mind that God, in the Old Testament, showed many signs and wonders to his people. Even after seeing those signs[...], they still disobeyed."
I've noticed that, too. And my conclusion, is that NOBODY can be THAT stupid, disobeying an all-powerful being with a reputation for being stern and a fondness for the barbaric custom of lapidation, one who unhesitantly killed all the first-born including newborn babies, when said being is right there with you all the time. Does the mouse spit at the lion?
That stupid, no. Impossible. Insane, now, that's possible. Schizophrenia can do that to a person's behavior, switch off any basic sense of caution and survival instinct.
But wouldn't God have known if these disobedient followers were legally irresponsible for their actions?
Or maybe he picked a population way too dumb to deserve Him. There were very intellectually advanced Greeks not far, who invented Democracy, Geometry, etc...
They would've been MY first choice in a game of Populous.
"Re: jealousy, why would you be content with people settling for anything other than the one ultimate truth?"
Why would a self-described ultra-jealous God settle for a tiny minority of the Earth's population following his rules for thousands of years? Why not grant unstoppable Divine victory to the Chosen People and convert the whole planet, instead of constantly worrying that they might be attracted by the enticingly libertine ways of their so numerous neighbors?
In my experience, any HUMAN with such a personality and attitide is just terrified of people finding out he's not all he claims to be.
Translation : how can we be sure that it WAS God prescribing all these laws, if only the very un-neutral and un-objective Clergy wrote the official version of all the "facts" that happened?
What's even to prove that they didn't make it all up? Countless similar impostures have been documented all through History. Including divine curses in Egyptian tombs, liberally "helped" with very devious booby traps.
You said you "want to worship God", Phineas. Well, that's your most definite full right. Just don't come mistaking choices about beliefs with any proven knowkedge. Many people still want to believe that George W. Bush wasn't a complete [CENSORED]. But they don't have proof of that either. Politics, religion... it's always about something you deeply believe in, isn't it?
As my profile states, my political beliefs have long shifted to skepticism. Coincidence? I think not.
"Especially if those people rage on against you in hatred and disobedience."
I've seen more sensibly understanding and forgiving parents than THAT alleged "loving God of Infinite Mercy".
We view God, all gods including "pagan" cultures, the exact same way we view parenthood and education. It is by no means a coincidence if we call Yahve "Father", and if strict religious families are the same ones where children are scarred for life by the unreasonable severity of their parents' "pedagogy".
I speak from extensive experience and observation, sometimes right next to me. It's all so very intensely Freudian.
"His jealousy is a jealousy that longs to call everyone to perfection by his side."
Uncanny. That's EXACTLY what one of my bigoted aunts would say, when she declared she wanted to remold my whole personality, fix all the shortcomings of my inept parents, restart my education from scratch whatever the cost. "Because I love you, and I want you to be perfect." To mention her exact expressions.
I prefer not to tell you exactly how old, lonely and unhappy she is today. Drove her own children away (even though they're very pious too), with her neurotic, bordering psychiatric attitude of "steel-hard relentless straightening love".
Religion AND education, to her, were just an excuse, an exutory, to try and compensate the frustrations of her own life. By making others utterly miserable, while convinced she was paving the path to fundamentalist happiness.
Her only two hobbies are going to Church, and bickering with the priest because she's positive she knows liturgy better than he does, the clumsy fool.
And maybe she does. Then again, I've seen Trekkies and Simpsons fans who knew the series better than its own creators. They still have no life...
Correction: she does have a third hobby. Gossip. I read somewhere in the OT, more than once, that gossip is a despicable sin... but apparently I'm not the only self-tought expert who's forgotten the reference!!!
"I hope you don't give up trying to find the truth."
BTW, did Mulder ever find his abducted sister? Life's accidents kept me from watching the end of the series.
"And then I thought, even if he were real, why would anyone want to worship such a sadistic bastard?"
Why, abject terror, of course! Like his turkmenbachiness Saparmurat Niyazov and all other megalomaniac would-be gods dictators, Stalin the Red Atheist included.
Remember how many kings, and rulers, were always declared "living gods", with mandatory worship et cætera? Pharaoh, Caesar... even to this day, the Pope, just for being pope, automatically becomes "His Holiness", suggesting that he's an official living saint.
So what's the point in bleating "santo subito" when JP2 finally upgraded his blurry pixels from shaky zombie to effective stiff? What, it's a part-time sanctity job, an internship in the company's Earth succursal while waiting for a better contract?...
"And that was when I became an Atheist..."
Well, I didn't, but really, my own belief is purely a philosophico-metaphysical one. Finding no vaguely solid reference in the Dead Scrolls (wasn't there "sea" somewhere in that name?), I chose to follow sense and my instinct.
And there's a bonus: when we die, I'll have an immortal soul, naner-naner, while you, not wanting one, might fade into oblivion like some little mermaid.
Maybe.
Then again, the first thing I had to admit about my belief, is that like any belief I can be sure of nothing!
Except Santa Claus, of course. All those presents are as many cold, hard proof.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a Resident Evil 7 game on hold on my brand new Wee! FunStation XXX. I've just discovered the Unholy Basilisk of the Undead, and am looking for a way in. It is said to hold the Holy Chair of Priest Legacy in the Crypt of Inappropriate Behavior, and if you pop a young virgin's cherry on it, you unlock the God Code: invulnerability, infinite ammo, unstoppable B.F.Guns, flying, no clipping, all maps, the gamut.
Siladitya,
Your point is???
Is that post anything else than foot-in-the-door advertising, a.k.a. SPAM?
And the Blogger profile is not viewable, either. Most suspicious...
DocMike, I suggest considering a deletion here.
Hey, cool! RE7, eh? I'll prob. pick up a copy of RE5 once the price goes down, but until then I'm sticking with Dragon Quest 5 and Retro Game Challenge on my DSi (living in Japan has its benefits :)
In interest of full-disclosure, I have very little to do with the Catholic Church. I grew up a baptist (with a lower-case "b"), and my parents, though they took me to church and had me go to Christian camps during the summer, were never overbearing or forceful in helping me understand the Bible, for which I am very thankful. Some people think it may be impossible to grow up that way without being (and here's the popular term) "brainwashed". I'm very capable of making my own decisions and have dealt with the difficulties of life and the theological difficulties (ie, the accepting of certain theologies) that are taught in the Bible.
I am with you on the priests/clergy. The pope is no more than a man, and has no more advantage than any of the rest of us when it comes to hearing a responding to God's word, and I seriously despise the vein in the Catholic church that causes people to think they have to be good or they're damned. The Bible clearly teaches that we are damned because our works will never be good enough - but for those who believe Christ will save us from damnation. ie, we can never be good enough.
Priests and the such who are involved with the pedophile scandals should not be priests anymore. It doesn't mean they should be kicked out of God's kingdon (again, we all fail, some especially harder than others), but they should no longer be in a position of leadership, which clearly goes against the teaching of the Bible.
Anyway, I want to dialogue with a lot of the stuff you mentioned, but may not have the time to cover everything. It DOES sound like you and I have had a very similar struggle with the character of God in the OT. You may not care, but I have some links to a friend's apologetic website, posts that he wrote himself. I'm linking to them because 1) you can see the discussion over there from both believers and atheists alike, 2) his desription of the OT law and the OT God are exactly what I would say, and 3) they're informed opinions about those very things. You can feel free to disagree with any of that, I suppose, but he's not part of some conspiracy or using underhanded tactics. People have questions and he answers them to the best of his ability. Anyway, here's the first one about OT Laws, often misunderstood in this day and age: http://rhoblogy.blogspot.com/2008/01/breakin-law-breakin-law.html, an intereting one on rape: http://rhoblogy.blogspot.com/2008/04/rape-commanded.html.
There's another one he has somewhere about the OT God, but I can't seem to find it at the moment (diggin' through the archives). I'll come back to this post and put it up when I do. Anyway, I kno they're a bit long, but I find these discussions fascinating simply because I like to sharpen myself in the search for truth.
And here's a great one that I found on rape in the Bible, dealing specifically with the Lot passage: http://www.thirdmill.org/answers/answer.asp/file/99778.qna/category/ot/page/questions/site/iiim
It has this tidbit (and more): "This is clearly an instance in which Lot offered his daughters to be raped by the mob, but this does not justify the rape. Rather, it is an example of the weakness and sin for Lot. Although the New Testament describes him as "righteous Lot" (2 Pet. 2:7), it does not do so on the basis of this action but on the basis of his torment at living in their society. In other words, his conscience more than his actions bore witness to his righteousness. His offering of his daughters itself was an act of desperation, and a wrong act at that - and I would challenge any father to deny that fact. Can you imagine offering your own daughter to be raped? Doesn't every fiber of your being rise up and fight that idea? Well, that was supposed to be how the original audience reacted to this information too. They weren't supposed to think, "Oh, then I guess it's okay." They were supposed to react the way every father in the world should react, whether regenerate or not. They were supposed to be horrified and to think, "What!? You mean even the 'righteous' people in the city behaved that way? No wonder God wiped them out!"
http://rhoblogy.blogspot.com/2007/04/what-is-god-like.html
http://rhoblogy.blogspot.com/2009/01/little-on-ot-slavery.html
http://rhoblogy.blogspot.com/2008/07/abraham-and-isaac.html
"Some people think it may be impossible to grow up that way without being (and here's the popular term) "brainwashed". I'm very capable of making my own decisions"
Yup, you and I are alike in past, if not in the exact results.
It's more frequent than "outsiders" (to a religious upbringing) might think. Here in religious Lebanon, if you're un-strict you don't flaunt it much, but to put it in a simplified expression, "fanatism isn't hereditary". ;-)
It's a contagious mental disease, and some are more immune that others.
Same goes for muslims. Some of my colleagues/ friends/ neighbors also have a very relaxed and relative view on the officially tought strictitude, and acute wariness against holier-than-thou hypocrite clerics.
I love to repeat this remark of mine at every given chance: it's not the culture that makes the person, it's the person's own nature. In every country, culture, religion, political orientation, wealth category, one can find criminals, bastards, bland people, and some pretty neat, even awesome ones.
Including among atheists. Labels are like TV advertising: essentially a lure. Always try for yourselves. :-)
Re. salvation/damnation:
I really can't buy this whole christian doctrin theory (and which is rather liberally extrapolated, I feel). They'd have us believe that until Easter morning of year 33 AD, even the nicest people didn't go to Heaven. And that somehow, God absolutely needed to send his only son for us to assassinate as some sacrifice (after letting Isaac off the hook?!?) before we could be forgiven, including for our born "original sin" (whatever THAT nonsense is), and only by acknowledging the name of Jesus, "don't forget to also say Lord, Christ, Holy and Savior"?
Again, this would make any population neglected by the direct Message from Above the victim of some pretty arbitrary injustice.
I simply believe that, if God knows us like nobody else could, and loves us like nobody else could, then Big Daddy can be expected to be more understanding than any human father ever could. Focused on education, not on sanction.
In fact, I don't believe there CAN exist such a thing as eternal damnation. Only our own stubbornness to repent could make our tailor-made Purgatory last forever. What kind of loving father could ever say: "That's it, you're dead to me, forever"?
That's bovine manure, dude. Does not compute. Nothing but an infuriated Freudian delusion.
As for Jesus, I simply think that he gave us some pretty nifty wisdoms and moral principles to modernize the old encrusted ways. Among which, the cardinal "judge not, lest thou be judged the same". (To faithfully translate the original expression.)
Getting oneself savagely killed by the Establishment for daring to do so, because it was the right thing to do, that's quite sufficient to deserve my respect.
Man, god, hybrid, I don't care, see first paragraph : it's not WHAT he was that remotely matters, it's WHO he was, interesting by the spirit of his deeds. Miracles are good for those who kowtow to the powerful, and go all "hail divine Caesar".
Satan is also traditionally known for his ability to bend the laws of Physics/Biology. That's no reason to follow a jerk.
"Priests and the such who are involved with the pedophile scandals should not be priests anymore."
And illegally ordained bishops who are public negationnists should, at the very least, become simple civilians again. De-excommunicate them in the name of unity if you like, but don't bloody give them any AUTHORITY!
There is something rotten in the Kingdom of Vatican... That S&M dungeon of zombies stinks like the week-old sheets of a one-dollar whore's workplace.
That ResidentEvil allegory wasn't fortuitous at all.
"but may not have the time to cover everything."
Well, I confess, my brother, I'm a tough hare to chase. I'm working on being more concise, but still a long way from home. Obviously. :-)
"You may not care, but I have some links"...
Sure I care. Haven't you noticed yet that I'm a sucker for such discussions? ;-)
I'll try to read them, and to then discuss them with you MORE BRIEFLY.
But it's always the same thing: getting to know each other begins with a lot of data exchange. Old couples talk less than Valentine cooing lovers.
Saving these linked pages right now for leisurely reading later.
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